#255: We Have Never Been Woke with scholar Musa al-Gharbi

Quillette podcast host Jonathan Kay speaks with scholar Musa al-Gharbi , whose new book analyses the rise of progressive ideological orthodoxy as a means for elites to signal status and accumulate cultural capital.

We also talk about Musa ’s own fascinating backstory, which begins with a military family in Arizona , has the author going through a stint as a shoe salesman, and involves a right-wing cancel campaign orchestrated against Musa by Fox News .

Musa al-Gharbi : I basically destroyed this guy as it became clear that he was ignorant on the substance of the empirical questions of what was actually happening in Syria .

He responded to me spiking the ball in this way by trying to launch a smear campaign to get me fired from the University of Arizona .

It started in smaller right-leaning outlets such as the Washington Free Beacon , but got picked up by Fox News .

Jonathan Kay : I realised one of the problems is that people like me don’t really engage with the kind of audience Fox News ’ typical audience much at all.

When we do, it’s typically in this sneering, mocking, adversarial way, he says.

He says he responded to getting attacked by Fox News by trying to engage more with people across the aisle.

Kay : If you're just cheerleading with people who already agree with you, you’re not really doing much.